Legendary NY Punk Clubs By Donny the Punk (From MAXIMUM ROCK N ROLL #112 Sep 1992)

In the beginning, God (in the form of form of Hilly Kristal) created CBGB-OMFUG on New York City’s most disreputable street (never mind that in the 1890’s it was the most fashionable entertainment district), the Bowery. CBGB’s was a true dive and a fitting place for punk to be born (the Ramones started playing there at the end of 1974). It was the Holy of Holies for punk rock for well over a decade, a place where miracles took place, musicians were elevated to sainthood, legends were born, etc, etc. I could fill up a whole page just listing the legendary bands and musicians who played there! Cheap beer and cheap admission along with an anything-goes atmosphere and open band rooms made it a heaven for 70s punk rockers. The drinking age was 18 and most punks were college age. Drugs were everywhere. Fans took off all their clothes and Stiv Bators got a blowjob on stag; nobody objected. I had to crawl across the stage to get in the toilet and never knew what I’d find when I stumbled into it, as often as not an orgy in progress. Hilly was not just a money-grubbing capitalist no, he also managed bands like the DEAD BOYS (r.i.p.) and knew all the ins and outs of the punk scene. Vinyl moments of those days are the double LP Live at CBGB and Night of the Living Dead Boys. For a while, CB’s was our little secret, a place where you could see the TALKING HEADS and THE RAMONES playing back-to-back from a distance of 2 feet for a few bucks.

But nothing so good can last forever. Around 1978 punk was getting trendy, and jet-setters would fly into town, ask what was new and exciting, and be told: go to this weird club on the Bowery. So they flocked to CBGB’s. We had some fun trying to freak out the jet-setters in their jewels and minks, half of whom would leave about 10 bars into the first song. But, following the law of supply and demand, door prices soared til they reached the stratospheric level of $10 (that’s probably over $20 in today’s inflated dollars). So capitalism doth make paupers of us all. The natural result was that the punx went elsewhere.
Mainly to Pete Crowley’s Max’s Kansas City, on Park Avenue South at 17^th St., from ‘76 on a competitor and then a worthy successor to CBGB’s glory, it’s sound preserved on THE HEARTBREAKERS Live at Max’s LP. Bands played upstairs and ate at the restaurant downstairs. Other clubs proliferated when the punks stopped going to CB‘s; the celebrity-studded Mudd Club downtown, Hurrah’s uptown, Trax, Tier 3, Irving Plaza (where I saw THE BUZZCOCKS and the GANG OF FOUR together when both were largely unknown to New Yorkers); these places attracted a lot “new wave” trendies and rich kids to punk rock shows, but Max’s was the real punk hangout.

All these clubs were run to make money, and that is an existential dilemma of punx, who have none. In some ways, the best club of all at the end of the 70’s was Studio 10, run by the anarchist Yippies at 10 Bleeker Street, a pebble’s throw from CBGB’s. Admission was $3, the audience practically surrounded the stage, the Yips handed out free marijuana and sold Heineken for .50 a bottle, you could sleep over if you didn’t want to go back to Long Island at 4AM and best of all, a huge balcony was furnished with nothing but an enormous mattress, where you could fuck up a storm while watching a band play 20 feet away. Studio 10’s vinyl monument is on the 7” The Only Record in the World by Mykel Board’s original band ART, where you can hear the band getting booted off the stage in a moment of ironic triumph.

HARDCORE TAKES OVER 
As Max’s and Studio 10 died and hardcore came in around 1981, salvation took the form of little club called A7, owned by Dave Gibson at the corner of Avenue A and East 7th St. A7 was originally a tiny after-hours bar which allowed punx (led by Stephen of the FALSE PROPHETS) to book all-ages, all-hours, 10 bands-for-$5 marathons and wasn’t out to make money off these shows. Most of the kids didn’t even drink! You could hang out there as long as you liked. The band ISM even recorded a song about it, “A7”. Alas, I can’t personally testify to A7’s legendary greatness, since I was in prison during the six months it was going in 1981. 

The jet-setters having stopped coming to CBGB’s, Hilly opened up the club to hardcore matinees in ‘80-’81, and they became a $5-$7 feature every Sunday for most of the 80’s. For punx the matinees brought a new renaissance of the CBGB’s magic, aided by the best club sound system in New York, tho the evenings were lost to new wavers except for the occasional punk nite shows. The tables were cleared to make room for a slam pit and the stage was rebuilt. These were the glory years of NYC hardcore.

There were problems, mainly fighting and bully-bouncers (the Hell’s Angels were brought in a couple times to restore a semblance of order). Hilly got less and less involved and turned on-site control of the matinees over to his ex-wife Karen (popularly known as The Witch) who specialized in prohibitions and gradually tightened the rules. This was largely in response to lawsuits by parents of injured kids.

By 1986, metal influences were strong, the drinking age had been raised to 21 and strict carding kept out anyone under 16, a girl would get thrown out for taking a bra off, the rent was soaring, beer was expensive, and money was ruling more and more. Several times Hilly ended the matinees because of the violence (most of it actually in front of the club rather than inside) only to resume a few months later. Eventually, even stage-diving was banned. But the end of the CB’s matinee came in November 1985, leaving numerous live recordings to posterity as well as a book, Roman Kozak’s This Ain’t No Disco: The Story of CBGB. It’s worth taking a look at the club today just to soak up the history and vibes of the place, and punx have found the next-door pizza bar to their liking, but punk shows there are few and far between these days, the most recent one being a cozy Xmas Day semi-party with the FALSE PROPHETS and IRON PROSTATE (and me reading “A Visit From St. Vicious”).

There were other clubs in the heyday of hardcore: Irving Plaza, looking like nothing so much as a high school gym, run by Polish war veterans; Danceteria; the old Peppermint Lounge (Sunday nite hardcore show with 3 bands for $5 at W. 45th St.); Great Gildersleeves, a big place adjacent to CB’s doing hardcore shows in ‘83-’84; Tin Pan Alley, a small bar at W. 52nd St., run by a radical lady named Maggie who use to subsidize experimental and politically radical bands, paying them a flat fee of $200 per nite and charging absolutely nothing to get in. Tin Pan was where, of you were lucky enough, to hear about it, you could go see the BUTTHOLE SURFERS play for 2 straight hours, all for free: Club policy was never to advertise. It’s closing in ‘88 was a major loss.

The old Rock Hotel on Jane Street near the Hudson River was the biggest of all the clubs, doing Saturday nite shows for 800 punx in a great setting, starting at $5 admission in 1984, bringing in the best of the touring bands and putting a bunch of headliners on a single bill, with dancing after the bands continuing to 5 or 6 am. Unfortunately, the owner Chris Williamson, was really a money-grubbing metalhead, so when the old joint closed he started renting out the Ritz and the World, becoming just another exploiter with storm troopers for bouncers; he feuded with the Alternative Press and Radio Council and eventually most punx wished him a speedy trip to hell. He’s still luring “punk” bands into doing $25 shows, alas. The only other large club going now is the Marquee, with shows every couple months or so in a decent venue. 

PUNK POWER: ABC NO RIO 
Now let me tell you about ABC No Rio, at 156 Rivington Street just above Delancey in the Hispanic Lower East Side. In the latter 80’s, Bob Z used to put on “punkture” shows there. I lived a couple of blocks away in ‘87 when I went to a show where 3 bands from punk’s art/ experimental/ noise wing were deliberately trying to clear out the audience. They were making progress in that direction but were still a ways from their goal when suddenly shots rang out; a disputed drug deal upstairs was the reason, but the sound of gunfire was certainly more effective than the punkture bands in emptying the club. 

Well, ABC came back in late 1989 under the guidance of Mike Bullshit (now departed for Texas or Iowa), and is still going strong (as this is written in mid-July 92) as a punk-run club with Saturday matinees from around 4 to 8 pm, 3 or 4 bands for $5; all-ages, of course. Neil does the bookings, which vary greatly in quality. Upstairs is an art gallery where kids sell records and zines and Food Not Bombs sell food not bombs (usually cold pasta and brownies); a great conversation place. There’s a backyard with occasional bar-b-ques and an American flag pissing wall (feminists can complain til doomsday, but this target practice is one pleasure especially reserved for boys). Downstairs is where the bands play on a small pillar-infested stage. You can bring in your own beer and go nude if you want; it’s punk-run by an informal collective and has very few rules; no bottles inside or smoking downstairs, no fighting (almost never happens), no racist, sexist or homophobic bands. A great, friendly place. It’s main problem is that most of the bigger touring bands won’t play there since it’s too small to make much money, tho it’s tons of fun. 

The artistic group which has charge of the space and lets us punx do our thing on Saturdays does other shit like poetry readings and art happenings on other days. For years they’ve been in a legal fight with the City of New York, which of course is trying to throw us out and turn the place over to the cobwebs. For all I know, by the time this is printed the place will have been closed. So check it out while you have a chance! To find out who’s playing there (and at any other venue in the New York metro area) just call (212) OPEC-SID at any hour. Glenn, my worthy successor as the voice of Sid, changes the 3 minute tape on Thursdays and Mondays. I’m trying to get a punk coffeehouse started there if the city doesn’t throw us all out.

And after ABC? Who knows; all I can say is that the punk energy continues and so far has always found another place to gather. On to Brooklyn?

Some INSURGENCE Fliers 1989-1990

From the Summer of 1989 to the Summer of 1990 I was one of the two (then THREE!) vocalists for NYC Anarchopunk band INSURGENCE. I did about a dozen shows with INSURGENCE, and appeared on the Squat Or Rot Vol. 2 EP track 'The Hawk & The Dove'. I wrote the lyrics for that song, and most of the songs in our set while I was in the band.

Here are some show fliers recently unearthed and scanned:

 Our first show- at a Squat or Rot food drive!

The shows we played at Long Island's RIGHT TRACK INN were always amazing!

I think Ralphy Boy from SLAUGHTER did this flier (don't quote me on that)

Another gig w/ the legendary WINTER, this time at the infamous Lismar Lounge.

Artwork by INSURGENCE guitarist Loren Marks

Absolutely legendary night. A real zenith.

Flier by INSURGENCE bassist Jason N.

 NAUSEA's flier for the same show

Artwork by Al Long I believe

Show at The Pyramid

'Punk's Last Stand'- haha

Flier by Brendan SFA

Overall I remember my time with INSURGENCE fondly, especially the early days. I didn't really leave on good terms with the band, but that's because the idea of THREE singers was a ridiculous one. As I was the youngest member I suppose I should've seen that my days were numbered, but at 16 I didn't really have that foresight.

The band continued through 1990 as INSURGENCE playing a bunch more shows and then changed their name in early 1991 to HUNGER FEAST. They broke up later that year. Singer Alicia Non Grata would go on to front NY area metal band 13.

For various reasons we were never able to get it together enough to do an official release, but over the years people would bug me a lot for the music so I put together an unofficial cassette of whatever studio and live material I had, plus our graphics.

Since the split there's been a good deal of interest in the band (especially recently) so who knows what will happen next...

Highly Recommended: “Tompkins Square Park: Legacy of Rebellion” pamphlet by Bill Weinberg (2008)

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED:
“Tompkins Square Park: Legacy of Rebellion” by Bill Weinberg
(Autumn Leaves Press; Ithaca NY 2008) 40 pages

This pamphlet sets out to document “a Century and a Half of Protest & Resistance on New York’s Lower East Side”, with the struggle in and around Tompkins Square Park as the epicenter.

From the very start I loved everything about this pamphlet. The introduction reads:

“Twenty years after the (1988) Tompkins Square riot, New York’s Lower East Side has transformed from a class-war battleground to an increasingly sterile and staid high-rent enclave. The park’s bandshell is but a memory for old-timers, and neighborhood newcomers are not even cognizant of the years of political and physical struggle that cleaned the district for their arrival. They have less awareness still that they are the beneficiaries of a cycle of confrontations over the district going back nearly two centuries.”

Every time I find myself in Tompkins Square Park or walking around the Lower East Side these are my sentiments exactly, and its great to see them summarized in such an accurate and concise form.

Weinberg starts off with the history of the creation of the park, from its inception to its opening in 1834. Almost from the very beginning Tompkins Square Park was a center of rebellion and uprising. The author does a good job of documenting the park as a center of radical labor struggles, as part of the immigrant experience in the Lower East Side and through to the tremendous changes that occurred in the Robert Moses-era 1950’s.

The 1988 riot era of Tompkins Square Park traces its roots more to the late 1960’s influx of counter-culture types, along with the immigration of Puerto Ricans and a smaller number of African-Americans to Loisaida (Lower East Side). The first large riot of this era occurred on Memorial Day 1967 when police tried to shut down a group of people playing guitars and congas over a noise complaint. 38 people were arrested for disorderly conduct, and there was a dramatic shift in the attitudes of people in the neighborhood toward the police.

This also ushered in the post-Viet Nam era where hard drugs like cocaine and heroin took over the street scene, and the tenement housing stock of the area rapidly decayed. Anyone around the LES in the 1980’s will remember the wild place that it became. All this was the tinder that was sparked the night of the 1988 riot.

As a first-hand participant Weinberg does a great job of documenting the movement of Anarchists, squatters, homeless, punks, artists and other neighborhood people that came together to resist the police and gentrification from 1988 to 1991. It was in 1991 that the City of New York closed the park, built a 16-foot high chain link fence around it and started bulldozing. The park was redesigned to make it easier to police, included the complete destruction of the band shell that was erected in 1966. There is a bit of coverage of the dying embers of the movement from 1991-2008, but for all intents and purposes the writing was on the wall for the Lower East Side the minute the park fell. It wasn’t long after that the area was considered pacified, and tens of millions of dollars of real-estate investment flooded the area, creating high-priced condos for wealthy newcomers.

This pamphlet closes by asking whether, after 150 years as a center of immigration and working-class rebellion, the Lower East Side and Tompkins Square Park have finally been changed into an ‘elite playground’.
The answer is both sadly and clearly yes, though there are still a few minor ongoing neighborhood battles over issues of the community gardens, police brutality and surveillance. The more important question for those of us who related to the 1988-1991 anti-gentrification movement is what can we learn from our loss and how can we regenerate ourselves on some new fronts, complete with our knowledge of what the system is capable of.

BTW At $6 this pamphlet is a bit steep. It would be much better priced at $3, with a chance for greater circulation on this important subject.

Try getting your copy from WW4Report.com 

Riot in Tompkins Square Park -1874!-

'Anarchy In The USA (and Canada)' article Nov/ Dec 1988



One of the better articles from the era to cover the US and Canadian Anarchist movements

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ANARCHY IN THE USA (AND CANADA)
Anarchist politics take root among the young

By Brian Ahlberg
From Utne Reader Nov/ Dec 1988

Clashes between young anarchists and police in three different cities during the past few months offers some evidence that a new North American anarchist “movement” now exists.

Anarchists played an active role in recent confrontations in Minneapolis, and New York City, but in both cases they were a minority faction within broader protests. The third imbroglio, however, pitted hundreds of anarchists, who came from across Canada and the United States to Toronto for a July “unconvention,” against police. According to Ecomedia Bulletin (July 12, 1988) Toronto’s anarchist biweekly, 28 protestors were arrested and three police officers were hospitalized. The newsletter accused police of beating demonstrators who had gathered at the local American consulate, where they were protesting the U.S. downing of the Iranian commercial jetliner. Although the anarchists initiated no violence, claims the Bulletin, “When we get attacked, we will fight back regardless of anyone’s so-called ‘authority’”.

The Minneapolis incident follows the sending of U.S. troops to Central America last March. A large but conventional civil disobedience action  aimed at disrupting traffic in the city’s fashionable Uptown district was jolted into front-page prominence by youthful punks and skinheads, many organized under the banner of the Revolutionary Anarchist Bowling League (RABL). RABL militants burned an American flag, pelted police cars with paint bombs, and hurled a bowling ball through the window of a nearby military recruiting station- all described in glorious detail in the pages of the group’s small, sporadic, but stylish tabloid, the RABL ROUSER (Issue #3). The young protestors also danced in the streets and conscientiously cleared all the litter from the area before leaving the scene. One RABL insider explained to the St. Paul Pioneer Press Dispatch (March 27, 1988) that the group’s name was chosen not only for its acronym and humor, but also because “bowling appeals to the working class, and revolution does not but should”.

“A little ragged rally” against curfews in Tompkins Square Park- a nighttime hangout for youths and homeless people on Manhattan’s Lower East Side- led to a melee one night in August that the Village Voice (Aug 16, 1988) termed a “police riot,” which cost two ranking New York City police officers their posts. Rally leaders sported a black flag and “Class War” banner, and shouted slogans like “Die Yuppie scum!” to protest the area’s gentrification. Early morning pedestrian traffic and local residents joined the demonstration as 450 officers and a police helicopter were called to the park. Police swept through the crowd on horseback and used unnecessary force against bystanders, according to the police commissioner’s report.

Approximately a thousand committed, active anarchists are part of this new North American movement- a majority of whom are between the ages of 15 and 30. Drawn largely from young people mobilized by the twin threat of military and ecological holocaust, and to a lesser degree from the disaffected mainstream protest movements and the hierarchical Marxist left, new anarchists seem driven more by the desire to live anti-authoritarian lives than by commitment to anti-statist ideology. The organized groups are concentrated in San Francisco, New York City, Minneapolis and Toronto, with some activity going on in other cities such as Atlanta, Albany, Philadelphia and Lawrence, Kansas.

Punks, squatters, workers, students, and food co-op members have created a “political patchwork” from “hippie communalism, anti-war activism, punk culture, ecology, animal rights, sexual liberation, and tribal spiritualism,” according to the Toronto magazine NOW (July 7, 1988). The magazine points to young anarchists “composted ideology” and traces its lineage to the expressions of such diverse figures as Mikhail Bakunin, Peter Kropotkin, Emma Goldman, Sid Vicious and Yoko Ono. New anarchists mention the influence of the Spanish Civil War, the Italian writer Malatesta, and the Situationists (radical leaders of the 1968 student/ worker uprising in Paris famous for their slogan, “All power to the imagination”).

But far more often than relying on classic texts or received wisdom, new anarchists use their own experiences in attempting to create independent communities based on self-reliance, voluntary simplicity, and mutual aid. Decentralized anarchist networks communicate in person or through newsletters so they can feel connected with their young counterparts in Berlin, Copenhagen, London, Athens and Gdansk.

One 27-year old protestor from the Tompkins Square Park riot in New York City embodies the spirit of political non-conformity and direct action bred from desperation. He explained to the Village Voice (Aug 23, 1988) that he has lived his entire adult life under Ronald Reagan. “So when I have a problem, I do not write my congressman.” When things get bad, he takes his grievances to the streets. “And so do my neighbors, like we did Saturday night.”

ACT UP 'Stop The Church' Demonstration 12.10.89

The AIDS crisis in the 1980's was COMPLETELY out of control. People were dying all over the place in NYC, and the authorities (NYC government, Federal government, civil organizations) were very slow to respond. It felt like a plague had hit us, and nobody in power seemed to care. Most felt at the time this was because the primary people that were dying from the disease were gay men and IV drug users, both considered marginal and outsider populations by the mainstream.

ACT-UP (AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power) was formed to combat government and media indifference to the crisis. They did an AMAZING job of bringing this issue to the fore.

One of their most high profile cases, STOP THE CHURCH, was held outside St. Patrick's Cathedral on 12/10/89. Excerpted from ACT UP's Wikipedia page:

"ACT UP disagreed with Cardinal John Joseph O'Connor on the Roman Catholic Archdiocese's public stand against safe sex education in New York City Public Schools, condom distribution, the Cardinal's public views on homosexuality, as well as Catholic opposition to abortion. This led to the first Stop the Church protest on December 10, 1989 at St. Patrick's Cathedral, New York. In December 1989, approximately 4,500 protesters mobilized by ACT-UP and WHAM! gathered outside a mass at the cathedral. A few dozen activists entered the cathedral, interrupted Mass, chanted slogans, or lay down in the aisles.One protester broke a communion wafer and threw it to the floor. One-hundred and eleven protesters were arrested. Only minor charges were filed, punished primarily by community service sentences; some protesters who refused the sentences were tried, but did not serve jail time"

The Anarchist youth group I was a part of (NYDAC) came out in big numbers to support this protest. Most of us were NYC high school kids, and so the issue of condoms in schools and sex education directly affected us. We didn't believe the Catholic Church should have the power to influence the policy of secular institutions like NYC public schools.

Furthermore, we thought the Church's continued stance against condoms and homosexuality seemed insane when people were dying in the streets. The Church's response was to build more AIDS hospices! They were willing to help you die, but they weren't trying to help people NOT get AIDS in the first place.

The abortion issue was also front and center in the USA. There was a constant fear that Roe v. Wade was going to be overturned by the Supreme Court, and that abortion would once again be illegal, costing more women's lives in unsanitary, back-alley abortions.

Finally, I took PERSONAL relish in these protests as I had grown up a dedicated Catholic, but by 16 years old I was disgusted by the hypocrisy I had seen in the Chruch I was brought up in. These people were not "following on the path of Jesus", which is suppose to be the goal of all Catholics. They were not humble and anti-materialistic. They seemed to have missed all the memos about love and compassion for your fellow human beings. Catholicism had become defined by its' intolerance and backward-thinking. I was quite proud to speak out against it all. 

Apparently there is a documentary on this protest by the director Robert Hilferty called "Stop The Church". I haven't seen it yet, but a friend told me it was quite good.

Rock Against Racism w/ NAUSEA, FALSE PROPHETS @ Central Park Bandshell 05.01.88

A pivotal concert in my young life. 9th grade.

NAUSEA and the FALSE PROPHETS at the Central Park band shell for a Rock Against Racism, organized by the Yippies.

Most of my close friends over the next 3-4 years would be at that show.

A definite high water mark event for the underground NYC punk scene.

Photo by Andrea...i think

Here are some photos from the day taken by my man John A.:

Neil Robinson with a stack of fliers, and Darby next to him on stage.

Ralphy Boy from SQUAT OR ROT addresses the crowd.

 

 

Neil on the mic

 

Amy on the mic

 Stage diver

 Neil takes flight

 My friend and pen pal John A. at the show

A photo from Sam Moon's collection of the stage at the RAR.

These photos are great because the crowd shots show faces I remember vividly, most of whose names I can still instantly recall. I was wide eyed back then, taking in everything.

I've said it before and I'll say it again- when you catch shows like this one young like I did it kind of ruins you, because rock n roll and music in general rarely ever comes across as raw or as important as it did at shows like this one. Even back then I knew I was a witnessing realness, and I'd better appreciate it as much as possible. And I definitely did!

Interview w/ Vinny A.P.P.L.E. from MRR Jan 1987

A.P.P.L.E. (from MAXIMUM ROCK N ROLL January 1987)

Interview with Vinny of A.P.P.L.E. by Lydia Ely

MRR: How did A.P.P.L.E. come about in a city like New York where most of the bands would not exactly be called political? Did you see a need for a band with a strong message, or did it just follow from what you wanted to do?

V: The main purpose of A.P.P.L.E. and its main reason for existence is to create a forum for our beliefs. This society not only condemns unpopular beliefs, but also makes it very difficult for such beliefs to be heard. Music is just one medium we have utilized to open communication. In the past we have created Counterculture magazine, and various other literature, duplicated leaflets, etc. and handed them out at gigs for free. I see a strong need for bands with messages that are typically not heard. The New York scene, as I see it, is a quagmire of violence, sexism, fashion and fascism. A.P.P.L.E. strives to rise above such quicksand and offer an alternative. The hardcore bands that are most popular in NYC either have fascist or just stupid/ silly lyrics.

MRR: What is it like being a politically active punk band in New York City? Is the rest of the scene open to you and what you do? Are you supported locally?

V: The NYC hardcore scene is not open to political music. There are only two clubs in NYC that have regular “punk” gigs: the Ritz and CBGB. Neither is open to political music and neither do I patronize them. These clubs are only interested in money. Whatever sells will play. A.P.P.L.E. always plays non-profit gigs. We have played several animal rights benefits, a benefit for a Nicaraguan schoolhouse, and many free gigs.

MRR: You advocate anarchy/ autonomy, pacifism, peace, liberty and equality. Do you think it is possible to live in today’s society, with all its complex networks involving corporations, and still push for those things without being hypocritical?

V: It is vitally important to push for such “things” in this society. Capitalist networks and corporations rely on the support of the masses and without the support of the masses, corporations disintegrate. I, personally, try to live my life as naturally as possible, causing as little harm as possible to other people and species of animals, and causing as little harm to the environment and the earth as a whole. I find nothing hypocritical in doing so. No one is perfect, and I don’t pretend to be perfect.

MRR: What kind of lifestyle do you think would be ideal in this society for someone who is against the system? In other words, is it possible to live within the system and to still fight against it?

V: It is possible to live within the system and at the same time fight against it. It is also sad to say, but those who choose to disregard the system will most likely be crushed by it financially and forced to live in poverty. I feel, in this society, we must use any available tools within or outside the system to disintegrate the church and state. It is possible to enjoy an Anarchist lifestyle and hopefully to at least ignore, if not destroy the system, but at this time it is very difficult unfortunately.

MRR: Do you think it is necessary to remain in society while being against it? Do you think that rejecting it and living in a separate, self-sufficient isolated way is a “cop-out” of sorts?

V: I think we must ask ourselves the question of- is it healthy to live in a hostile atmosphere such as this present society? I don’t think so. Living your own life, regardless of what the system dictates, is not a “cop-out” and in the ultimate goal of Anarchism.

MRR: Do you have any political affiliations? Do you think the power to vote is any power? Are things like “No Business As Usual” etc. important?  Necessary? On the right track?

V: I presently am involved in several political groups. I feel being politically active is a responsibility of being a citizen. I encourage people to vote, not because I think our electoral process is good, but because I feel that voting does give people power to- in the very least- voice their opinion in a way in which the state officially recognizes it. Also I feel that by not voting and keeping quiet about it you become impotent. There is a not a ‘none of the above’ lever in voting booths, and not voting indicates to the system that you are indifferent or just don’t care who is elected. Also, many important propositions are placed on the ballot concerning the environment, etc. Suppose two candidates were running in an election for president, one supports the invasion of Nicaragua, the other does not, one supports “Star Wars”, the other does not. I most definitely would vote for the candidate opposing “Star Wars” and the invasion of Nicaragua (ie the lesser of two evils). I feel that if political activists did not vote it would guarantee the election of the more “evil” candidate. Surely we are all aware that the system regulates who is allowed to run, but in the very least even if a progressive candidate has no chance of election, voting can make a statement about which policies one may favor. “No Business As Usual” etc. is very important and on the right track because it allows people to take part in direct action anyway they can, anywhere they can, and leaves the particular action one may take in the hands of each person individually.

MRR: Do you think that music as a medium is the best way to communicate a message? With your music, do you feel confident that people listen to the lyrics as much as the music? In print more successful as a means?

V: I think music is just one of the forms of media that can be used to communicate a message. I don’t know which is more successful; that’s why we use any available media to get our message across (we also use slides, costumes and props at gigs). I think we appeal to people primarily through our lyrics and the music is there to make the message more “enjoyable” as compared to reading a book.

MRR: Do you think Americans are apathetic? Why do you think they are (if they are)? Do you think there’s something about American society that encourages conformity?

V: Americans are apathetic, not naturally, or by coincidence but because the system likes them that way. The system’s health depends upon the apathy and subjugation of the masses. Therefore, the system not only encourages conformity, but ostracizes those that refuse to conform. It must do so because the free will of the individual threatens its very existence.

MRR: How optimistic are your goals as a band?

V: Our music often appears negative to some people. I think this is because we expose and attack the negative aspects of society, the things that most people don’t like to hear about. Our goals are optimistic though. It is very optimistic to strive for a world without war, without bondage and without prejudice. Although much of our music is angry, no malice is intended. We focus mainly on the problems of society. I also feel our alternative way of thinking is refreshing and very optimistic.

MRR: What can the “average Joe” do to promote Anarchy/ Autonomy, Pacifism, Peace, Liberty and Equality? Is say working in a soup kitchen or a shelter significant?

V: The “average Joe” must become a socially responsible global citizen. We must refuse to take part in actions which are detrimental to our way of being. Any job working for the public interest is very significant. The main reason why most people do not work in soup kitchens, etc. is because it is not profitable to do so. Most public interest work is volunteer work. Why? Because the system likes it that way. The system sees to it that if there even is a salary involved, it is not enough for the average Joe to practically survive on, therefore, with the extremely high cost of living, the system forces us to seek employment elsewhere such as in defense plants which have very high salaries.

MRR: Are people assholes by nature? Do you believe that people, once exposed to good, pacifistic, humanitarian ideas will take the initiative to change their lives?

V: I believe people are not greedy, selfish, hateful “assholes” by nature. They are conditioned by society to exploit each other and this is necessary for the system to operate. People adapt to their respective environments. Surely, if a child was exposed to good pacifistic, humanitarian ideas as opposed to those the child now encounters on a daily basis, it would have a totally different attitude towards society and the world as a whole. We must continually evolve and change, for the lack of change brings stagnation, disease and death.

MRR: Up until now you haven’t put any vinyl out. Do you plan to press a record? If not, why?

V: In the past we have made only tapes because I wanted to have complete control, over the production. Also, tapes are less expensive to produce than records and therefore we can sell them for less and even give them away., whereas giving records away is many times more expensive and practically impossible. Selling your music for less means ultimately that you can reach many more people. We hope to make a record as our next project very soon. We presently have a tape available entitled Neither Victims Nor Executioners. It’s thirty minutes of music plus a ten page lyric booklet for three dollars post paid sent to the address below.

MRR: Any last words, comments, etc?

V: We would just like to thank Lydia Ely and MRR for this opportunity to reach its readers. We have always supported MRR and feel it is very important because it highlights alternative and independent music. A.P.P.L.E. would also like to strongly encourage anyone to write to us and let us know what they think of this interview or for any reason whatsoever.

Peace, Liberty, Equality,
Vinny

A.P.P.L.E. 25 Van Dam Street, Brooklyn, New York 11222